Re:Sanjûrokkasen

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Chats on Japanese Prints ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by DJM on January 05, 1999 at 21:38:57:

In Reply to: Re:Sanjûrokkasen posted by Hans Olof Johansson on January 05, 1999 at 05:06:23:

Hi Hans,

Looks like I was way off on that one, though that is literally the characters mean. It would have helped to see the print. Now that I see one posted, I'm surprised, for I have a different one from the same set!!

I agree with you that senryu probably represents a comic poem here. It was not at all unusual in the Edo Period to write well-known words with characters that don't have any actual semantic meaning, but match the sounds of the word. These are called ateji I believe.

And it's probably no accident that senryu's sen is the same sen as in Sencho. That may be the source of the wordplay, with "ryu" matching the idea of water.

If you look at Toyokuni III's "I-Ro-Ha" set, for example, you'll see a half dozen different characters used to represent these sounds, many of them playful puns on what's happening in the image.

: John,

: I have to admit, of course, that the evidence I have been able to produce, is circumstantial at the most, and I wouldn't wish to push my theory too far. I also have to say, though, that the idea really wasn't mine from the beginning. When searching the web for prints from this series in August, I found one at a dealer's site, where sanjûrokkasen was in fact translated as "36 ghosts". Maybe it was just a slip of the keyboard, but the fact that (at least) three of the four prints, that Theo had located so far, depicted ghosts made me wonder if this really was a mere coincidence.

: Mitate sanjûrokkasen no uchi may be a bad example, but I would like to broaden this discussion to encompass the whole problem of understanding and translating the ambiguous titles of many ukiyo-e series and individual prints. As I have already indicated, I am very often at a complete loss as how to interpret these titles. Admittedly, it is also a stimulating challenge, but in the end it is very often only frustrating.

: For instance, how would you interpret the title of a series by Sencho, that Nils U Bosshard brought to my attention some three months ago on this chat page?

: I feel rather certain that the title should be pronounced Keisei senryû awase. This would mean something like Comparisons of courtesans to... what? Looking at a print from the series, it becomes apparent that DJM's suggestion "springs and rivers" is not very satisfactory. Clearly, senryû in this context are "comical poems". But why did the artist use these two characters for senryû? Was this an alternative writing that was common around 1830? Was it just a slip of the brush? Or, did Sencho try to convey something else?

: The ball is in your court, John.

: Regards,

: Hans Olof

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup

Name:
Subject:

Comments:
: Hi Hans, : Looks like I was way off on that one, though that is literally the characters mean. It would have helped to see the print. Now that I see one posted, I'm surprised, for I have a different one from the same set!! : I agree with you that senryu probably represents a comic poem here. It was not at all unusual in the Edo Period to write well-known words with characters that don't have any actual semantic meaning, but match the sounds of the word. These are called ateji I believe. : And it's probably no accident that senryu's sen is the same sen as in Sencho. That may be the source of the wordplay, with "ryu" matching the idea of water. : If you look at Toyokuni III's "I-Ro-Ha" set, for example, you'll see a half dozen different characters used to represent these sounds, many of them playful puns on what's happening in the image. : : John, : : I have to admit, of course, that the evidence I have been able to produce, is circumstantial at the most, and I wouldn't wish to push my theory too far. I also have to say, though, that the idea really wasn't mine from the beginning. When searching the web for prints from this series in August, I found one at a dealer's site, where sanjûrokkasen was in fact translated as "36 ghosts". Maybe it was just a slip of the keyboard, but the fact that (at least) three of the four prints, that Theo had located so far, depicted ghosts made me wonder if this really was a mere coincidence. : : Mitate sanjûrokkasen no uchi may be a bad example, but I would like to broaden this discussion to encompass the whole problem of understanding and translating the ambiguous titles of many ukiyo-e series and individual prints. As I have already indicated, I am very often at a complete loss as how to interpret these titles. Admittedly, it is also a stimulating challenge, but in the end it is very often only frustrating. : : For instance, how would you interpret the title of a series by Sencho, that Nils U Bosshard brought to my attention some three months ago on this chat page? : : <IMG SRC="http://www.secutor.se/temp/senryuu.jpg"> : : I feel rather certain that the title should be pronounced Keisei senryû awase. This would mean something like Comparisons of courtesans to... what? Looking at a print from the series, it becomes apparent that DJM's suggestion "springs and rivers" is not very satisfactory. Clearly, senryû in this context are "comical poems". But why did the artist use these two characters for senryû? Was this an alternative writing that was common around 1830? Was it just a slip of the brush? Or, did Sencho try to convey something else? : : The ball is in your court, John. : : Regards, : : Hans Olof

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Chats on Japanese Prints ] [ FAQ ]